COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING COMMITTEE 
Excerpt from the meeting minutes, by Gail G. Smith, City Clerk

The Comprehensive Planning Committee of the City of Raleigh met in regular session on Wednesday, December 12, 2001, at 10:00 a.m. in the City Council Chamber, Raleigh Municipal Building, Avery C. Upchurch Government Complex, 222 West Hargett Street, Raleigh, North Carolina, with the following present:

            Committee                                                                              Staff 

Chairman Hunt, Presiding                                              Planning Director Chapman

Ms. Cowell                                                                  Deputy City Attorney Botvinick

Mr. Kirkman                                                                Conservation Engineer Bowden

                                                                                    Conservation Engineer Senior

                                                                                    Planner Watson Brown

Item #01-4 – TTA Station Locations.  Juanita Shearer-Swink, Don Carnell and John Roberson were at the meeting to make a presentation on the Phase I Regional Rail Service Locally Preferred Alternative Elements.  Ms. Swink introduced Jim Ritchie, Ann Franklin and Carter Worthy who were also present to answer questions.  She stated they were asked by the Planning Director to come and run through what has been adopted, show the Committee the issues they are looking at and answer any questions.  Ms. Swink utilizing a powerpoint presentation went through the Phase I Regional Rail Service, Local Preferred Alternative Elements in detail.  (copy attached)

 During the presentation, points of discussion on the Morgan/Hargett and Wye location included vehicular access to the Morgan/Hargett parking deck, pedestrian crossing of TTA and other rail tracks, cost differences between the Morgan/Hargett and Wye location, elevation of tracks in various locations under the different scenarios, concerns about noise, grade separation and property acquisition.  Other questions or clarifications related to the Raleigh Millbrook and Northeast Regional Center locations.  The TTA recommendations on these two locations were talked about.  Ms. Shearer-Swink indicated she feels TTA will concur with the City’s recommendation for the Millbrook location and she feels things can be worked out and we can move forward on the Spring Forest location.  She stated the City should make a clear statement on the need to expand Phase I to include a station in the northeast region.  Ms. Shearer Swink talked about losing people as they will not drive north to get on a train and go south.  How mass transit is developed and various scenarios were discussed.  The need and desire to develop a system as quickly as possible but head for a system that is economically feasible and TTA’s desire to build the 16 stations were talked about.  Mr. Hunt talked about the need to include an airport station to insure the success of the system.  Mr. Kirkman talked about the need to get cooperation from the Airport Authority and his fondness for the “Harrelson Plan” which is a line between North Raleigh and the Airport.  Mr. Kirkman said we need to get several issues on the table and get them worked out, one relates to the impact of a high speed rail, the impact of the Wye and Hargett/Morgan station on the Amtrak terminal and the City’s multi-modal station concept.  Mr. Chapman told of the study being done by NCDOT, TTA and the City of Raleigh of the proposed intermodal center which has been underway for quite sometime but is not complete.  He mentioned inter-city rail and what is taking place in the study.  He pointed out the City staff feels the Wye location is slightly preferable to Hargett/Morgan station location.  He talked about access for the downtown.

 In response to questioning, Department of Transportation Director Beckom stated neither the Wye nor the Morgan/Hargett location would have significant impact on the Boylan Avenue neighborhood traffic wise.  He talked about the bus circulation to both locations which is about the same, the concern that some have made about at grade crossings but his feeling those could be dealt with or handled.  He stated the Wye location gets people closer to downtown which is desirable for connections to the local system.  He stated basically the City staff leans towards the Wye location. 

Paul Meir, 403 Kensey Street, pointed out he has lived in that location since 1998.  He stated he had been in a data collection mode and was at the meeting to talk about the quality of life and residential living in the Boylan Heights area.  He stated almost all of the people walk to work.  They walk across the Boylan Avenue bridge everyday.  The people are concerned about safety and at grade crossings.  He stated a lot of the traffic issues can be mitigated.  He talked about the foot traffic on the bridge, kids on bikes etc.  He stated there is a lot of pedestrian traffic.  He talked about quiet zones.  He pointed out now all of the rail beds are repressed and explained the idea of a elevated train including whistles are of concern as nothing will keep the whistle and the train noise from penetrating into the neighborhood.  He explained the Council is always talking about downtown residential development and he does not feel that will be compatible with an elevated track over at the Boylan Heights area.  He stated it would be better to have a station at the Morgan/Hargett or Shelton Furniture location.  The people in Boylan Heights want to see mass transit.  It is a good idea and the Morgan/Hargett Street location would be their choice.  He talked about the property that would have to be purchased and listed that property for each location.  He talked about established residential areas versus uses that will not promote foot traffic.  He indicated there has been discussion about where the elevated tracks would go and with one location it would be over a residential area and the other would be in the State government complex area.  He pointed out it would be better to have elevated tracks over office areas as the people go home at night.  He stated they are very concerned about the noise impact coming from the downtown area into the Boylan Heights area.  He talked about the night club and enforcement problems as it relates to noise.  He stated he wants to work with the process and the City and talked about the City’s effort to revive downtown.  He stated as those efforts are underway he would call on the Council to think of uses that are compatible with residential areas and trains and night clubs are not compatible.  He talked about existing noise problems and stated as things keep occurring such as elevated trains and rock and roll clubs, he does not know whether he should continue to invest in renovation in the area.  He asked the Committee to keep those things in mind when making a decision.

 Mr. Hunt was excused from the meeting at 12:15 and Mr. Kirkman took the chair.

 Diane Kerrigan, 910 Dorothea Drive, representing the Boylan Heights Neighborhood Association, indicated in May of 2001 that group adopted a resolution and took a position on this item.  She stated they do not feel an at-grade crossing at the entrance of their neighborhood would be a good idea.  She explained it is a walking neighborhood and they feel at-grade crossings will compromise pedestrian safety.  She expressed concern about noise from the Wye location and pointed out they feel it will have a negative impact on the historic area.  She stated they endorsed the Morgan/Hargett location.  She pointed out as an individual she had done a lot of investigation relative to at-grade crossings and explained communities across the country are spending millions of dollars to eliminate at-grade crossings and she feels to put one at the entrance of their neighborhood would be irresponsible.  She stated she had heard City staffers and others say the traffic impact could be dealt with.  Her concern is it doesn’t need to be dealt with, handled or mitigated.  They feel they should be listen to and their concerns heard.  A dialogue took place between Mr. Kirkman and Ms. Kerrigan talking about the Denver situation and the at-grade crossings and the success of the systems in Denver.  Ms. Kerrigan stated she is just telling the Committee how the Boylan Heights neighborhood feels and if the Council chooses to go against their wishes and that is up to the Council.

 John Florian stated he has lived in this area some 9 years.  He told of his experiences while living and working in Baltimore and Washington and told of prosperity of the property owners near the location of systems in those locations.  He stated he supports the Wye locations as he feels it is the highest and best use of property, creates some enormous opportunities for downtown and he does not feel the Hargett/Morgan location provides incentive for private reinvestments.  He pointed out he cannot speak to the safety issues; however he feels pedestrian connections to the Boylan Heights area can be enhanced as it relates to the Wye location.  He stated there has been concern expressed about elevated platforms and while he hasn’t seen a lot of details on that but development opportunities could negate any adverse impact.

 Kim Stone, 1010 West Lenoir Street, stated the Boylan Heights area is a very unique neighborhood.  She told of her work in downtown and the area and expressed her preference for the Wye location as she feels that is a better fit.  She stated she does have concern about safety and noise but she trusts the professional, pointing out just as you teach your kids to cross a street you have to teach them safety in other issues.  She stated she does not see the Wye location as a negative impact and she feels it would be a plus because of what it would do for the neighborhood and downtown.  She stated as far as the Morgan/Hargett location is concerned an elevated track through the Glenwood South area would be a big negative impact and spoke in support of they Wye location as she feels it would be best for the downtown and the community.

 Harrison Marshall, 910 Dorothea Drive, pointed out he works with NCDOT but he is at the meeting on his own time.  He stated he hopes if the Wye location is selected it will help in the Cabarrus Street redevelopment.  He talked about the uses in that area and pointed out a lot of traffic comes through the Boylan Heights area that is not generated by the neighborhood. 

 Mr. Marshall spoke at length concerning the neighborhood’s involvement with this proposal starting out when there were two options the Wye and further north on Hillsborough Street.  He indicated they supported the station closest to their neighborhood and then the Morgan Street alternative was developed.  The neighborhood feels that location would reduce the negative impact on the neighborhood.  He told of the plus as for the Morgan Street location including pedestrian and vehicular access and circulation.  He told of the problems for pedestrians getting across existing at grade crossings.  He stated in his opinion either location would require a shuttle system to get people downtown.  He talked about the opportunities for development around the two locations.  He pointed out it doesn’t seem anyone is listening to the neighborhood and told of problems he has had with people checking to see where his emails were coming from, questioning why he was working on this issue during office hours, asking who his supervisors are etc.  He stated again he does work for NCDOT but has been working on this issue on his own time.

 David Weaver, 805 W. Cabarrus Street, spoke in support of Mr. Harrison’s remarks pointing out safety and noise are their major concerns and spoke in support of the Morgan Street location as it would help keep at-grade crossings at a minimum.  He told of situations of pedestrians trying to get across the West Street at-grade crossing.

 Mr. Carnell indicated the City and the neighborhood has their commitment to work with them explaining the TTA is not in a position of turning a deaf ear to anyone.  He stated they will be meeting to look at some of the issues, how to best handle pedestrian and vehicular safety, alternatives to mitigate problems, etc.  He stated they are just beginning the process and talked about the final design alternatives.  He also talked about working with his counterparts in areas that have similar systems and the fact he has heard of no pedestrian instances.  He stated everyone has TTA’s commitment to work on these issues in order to mitigate, solve or resolve the concerns.

 In response to questioning, Mr. Roberson talked about noise from the trains, whistles, etc., pointing out these are final design issues.  He stated at this point they do not know if they will be under the oversight of the Federal Railroad Administration or not.  Whether the regional rail is under the FRA will determine a lot of requirements.  He pointed out the TTA is still investigating the possibility of quiet zones.  He talked about the wayside or directional horns and whistles and pointed out they are looking at a combination of lights, flashers, bells and gates as opposed to horns.  He talked about the speed, the sealed corridor approach and pedestrian and vehicular safety.

 Mr. Kirkman pointed out he has spent quite a bit of time in the Boylan Heights area and participated in many of their activities.  He stated when he first looked at the alternatives he had very strong reservations about the Boylan Avenue crossing and he still has some reservations.  He stated however the at-grade crossing could be viewed as a potential traffic calming device.  He pointed out everywhere he goes he tries to study the different transportation modes and redevelopment opportunities around the various type stations.  He stated he still has mixed emotions.  He stated before Chairperson Hunt left the meeting he indicated a preference and he would not pretend to speak for Mr. Hunt.  Mr. Kirkman stated this is a tough call.  He has heard from many people, looked at many questions, objections, support and he still believes his preference is for the Wye location if certain conditions are met to make it work right.  He stated there is no good choice but that is part of the difficulty in trying to retrofit a system.  He stated if worked right he believes it can be handled as a tool to help preserve Boylan Heights and that will be the responsibility of the City of Raleigh.  He stated it is his belief the overall larger neighborhood including Boylan Heights will benefit most from the Wye option.

 Ms. Cowell stated she would like to see some kind of safety record for at-grade crossings.  She stated that is a concern to her in this location and pointed out she lives near one of the proposed at-grade crossings.  She asked for clarification on where the different options would be elevated.  The representatives of TTA talked about the safety issues, the sealed corridor option, and the safety record of the various safety considerations.  They talked about safety record, pointing out similar systems have been in place only 3 ½ to 4 years but they know of no fatal pedestrian instances except a suicide in one case.  He talked also about the calary gates and how they work.  Ms. Cowell questioned what safety measures would be put in place in the Raleigh area with it being pointed out that would emerge during final design.

 Mr. Kirkman questioned what happens once the TTA Board adopts the preferred station locations and at what point this gets to the “point of no return”.  Mr. Roberson talked about the process pointing out they have completed the draft EIS and they will begin the mitigation efforts next and hopefully that will be completed by next year and a record of decision would be adopted.

 The record of decision authorizes the final design and that is when they start flushing out the details.  He stated they would like to get approval of the station locations and talked about plan approval process.  It was pointed out the record of decision is a big point but there will still be a lot of points for refinement.  He talked about the desire to make the last six station location decisions on December 19, 2001.

 Mr. Kirkman expressed appreciation to Mr. Marshall for his work and advice and pointed out as we move forward he hopes he will continue to bring issues to the table.

 Carter Worthy, one of Raleigh’s appointees to the TTA, stated this is an opportunity for Raleigh to drive the impact of this important decision.  She stated putting off a decision until there is more input into the process is often a good strategy, but in this case other people will be driving the decision if Raleigh does not make a recommendation.  She talked about the types of systems, the regional issues and encouraged the Committee to move forward with a decision and help drive this issue.

 After other discussion on the process, the alternatives, etc., Mr. Kirkman moved the Committee recommend supporting the Wye as the preferred alternative.  His motion was seconded by Ms. Cowell.  Mr. Kirkman talked about pedestrian safety, the importance of downtown being a walkable community to be successful, pitfalls of skywalks in other cities and the need for the Boylan Heights area to stay involved.  He pointed out Mr. Hunt is on record as supporting the Wye location.  He stated he would request the TTA to stay in touch with Council and the staff during design details, etc.

 Discussion took place as to how this recommendation would be made to the TTA as that body plans to make a decision prior to a Council meeting.  Deputy City Attorney Botvinick indicated the Committee’s recommendation is the same as the Council’s previous action.  Planning Director Chapman pointed out the previous action indicate the staff had a slight preference for the Wye location but there was no definite recommendation.  He pointed out there is still a need to make a decision on the two North Raleigh locations again pointing out the information that went forward did include a preference.

 Planning Director Chapman pointed out the City hadn’t made a commitment on the North Raleigh location nor the matrix as presented.  It was pointed out some got the perception from the press that TTA is dropping one of the stations but they are really saying a Phase 1 and 1a.  The Committee talked about how you build a system the fact that in most instances the first leg is very short, how you phase, the need to get a system that includes the airport, the need to look at this in a cost effective manner, the feeling the Northeast Regional Center will be the station location that drives the whole system, the need to get the first leg on the ground and operating.

 Carter Worthy talked about the difficulty in a couple of the North Raleigh locations.  The idea of adding the Northeast Regional Center station as part of Phase 1 and delaying one of the other stations and the feeling if there is a strong preference from the City, the City should make that know.  Development matrix, savings by holding stations off and how these decisions are made and what the decisions are based on was talked about at length.  Desire to have the northeast station location as soon as possible but whether it is done in Phase 1, Phase 1a, exchanged for one of the other proposed locations.  When and how the Council makes it preference known was talked about at length.  When the council would make the recommendation and how that recommendation is developed was also discussed.  Mr. Kirkman talked about what will happen at the meeting on December 19 and the feeling that various Council members could express their opinion.  He stated he has a preference of getting the line out to the Northeast Regional center and soon as possible as he feels that will drive the system.

 Deputy City Attorney Botvinick questioned if the TTA could present the City Council with alternatives as it relates to the matrix, that is the different scenarios so the Council could know what its deciding upon.  It was pointed out a lot is not driven simply by station location but ability to operate.  They have to look at the capital and operation plan.  It is a complex combination of facts as to when the various legs could be built, what dropping or exchange in a station would cost, etc.  Mr. Kirkman again stated he would prefer getting the line out to the Northeast Regional center as he feels that will be the driving force of the system.  Ms. Shearer-Swink pointed out a great deal is driven by money.  She talked about additional cost to get to the Northeast Regional Center, land acquisition, station locations, etc.  She stated the desirability of this Raleigh City Council to get the Northeast Regional Center online is very clear to the TTA.  The ability to acquire sites before construction in an area takes place, land acquisition cost and the City working with TTA on acquisition or reserving right-of-way was talked about briefly.  The Committee agreed to reconfirm its previous action with a preference for the Wye site being made.